Double Glazing Shop - Nightmare

I had a very similar experience to Jim.

I ordered some bi-fold doors, paid 50% up front. The doors were ordered on 14th October and on the quote it specified a lead time of 15-20 working days. I phoned up for a status update after 15 working days and was told that the doors would be slightly delayed. I then spent the next 10 weeks chasing the company trying to get a firm date for delivery.

All calls (including to Phil Smith's mobile) were routed to an outsourced help desk company, who knew nothing about the order and could only promise that someone would ring me back. Phoning the sales desk had similar results - they were rude, unhelpful and said to me that they have unhappy customers calling them up every day to complain, so they weren't really bothered about my satisfaction

After reading the contract (which I probably should have done more closely before putting down the 50% deposit), I notified them in writing that in accordance with clause 2 of the contract I required them to deliver the order within a reasonable time frame. I disputed that the 6 weeks time frame on the contract was in fact reasonable, quoting the lead times from other local companies that I had got quotes from. I gave them 2 weeks to deliver the doors, threatened to instigate a VISA chargeback for the deposit and to complain to the Trading Standards Office.

Exactly 2 weeks later on December 15th, the elusive Phil Smith himself turned up in an Hertz rented van with the bi-fold doors - bear in mind this was a delivery only job, and I'm based in London, it seems odd that he delivered them himself.

The doors do seem to be of a good quality.

I found this site after ordering the doors, but wish I had seen it before and saved myself all the grief. If you are considering placing an order with bifoldshop.co.uk or any of the other websites run by FSBC Trading Ltd and Phil Smith, all I can say is *********DON'T*********

I had a very similar experience to Jim.

I ordered some bi-fold doors, paid 50% up front. The doors were ordered on 14th October and on the quote it specified a lead time of 15-20 working days. I phoned up for a status update after 15 working days and was told that the doors would be slightly delayed. I then spent the next 10 weeks chasing the company trying to get a firm date for delivery.

All calls (including to Phil Smith's mobile) were routed to an outsourced help desk company, who knew nothing about the order and could only promise that someone would ring me back. Phoning the sales desk had similar results - they were rude, unhelpful and said to me that they have unhappy customers calling them up every day to complain, so they weren't really bothered about my satisfaction

After reading the contract (which I probably should have done more closely before putting down the 50% deposit), I notified them in writing that in accordance with clause 2 of the contract I required them to deliver the order within a reasonable time frame. I disputed that the 6 weeks time frame on the contract was in fact reasonable, quoting the lead times from other local companies that I had got quotes from. I gave them 2 weeks to deliver the doors, threatened to instigate a VISA chargeback for the deposit and to complain to the Trading Standards Office.

Exactly 2 weeks later on December 15th, the elusive Phil Smith himself turned up in an Hertz rented van with the bi-fold doors - bear in mind this was a delivery only job, and I'm based in London, it seems odd that he delivered them himself.

The doors do seem to be of a good quality.

I found this site after ordering the doors, but wish I had seen it before and saved myself all the grief. If you are considering placing an order with bifoldshop.co.uk or any of the other websites run by FSBC Trading Ltd and Phil Smith, all I can say is *********DON'T*********

Hi Sean,
Thanks for your advice. I have been in touch with certas and they advice that FSBC trading are registered with them. Certas can make a company finish a job or replace shoddy work my local glazier informs me. Will let you know what happens. Rosemary

Hi Rosemary,

I would contact consumer direct immediately. 08454 04 05 06.
I have also logged an offical complaint to Herefordshire's consumer advice centre relating to all the complaints I have recieved on this website. I would suggest send a letter to Bi-folds aswell, make sure you have everything in writing, its important should you want to take legal action. Have you got a copy of the contract? Check to see if they are in breach of it.

Hi Rosemary,

I would contact consumer direct immediately. 08454 04 05 06.
I have also logged an offical complaint to Herefordshire's consumer advice centre relating to all the complaints I have recieved on this website. I would suggest send a letter to Bi-folds aswell, make sure you have everything in writing, its important should you want to take legal action. Have you got a copy of the contract? Check to see if they are in breach of it.

Hi all,
I have an ongoing problem with Bifold shop. They arrived to fit them on Jan 6th but the glass was 3" too wide, How can that happen after a survey? The French doors were boarded up and have now been like that for 2.5 wks The peolpe affected have a first baby of 4 days and in January this is COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE. Any ideas on how I should go forward? Rosemary Jan 24th

I had a lucky escape. A phone call to the bank with a quick explanation resulted in them refunding me directly. I had asked Phil Smith for a refund but he suggested the contract between us meant he was not obliged to. Fortunately for me the distant selling act along with my consumer rights were all that really mattered. To anyone looking to use this company my advice:
Avoid at all costs!

Message from FENSA:
FENSA have a very specific remit, quality, product and contrcatual issues do not come under the FENSA scheme, Please be advised we are not a regulatory body, however this installers FENSA registration has been cancelled and we have already written to them requesting they remove the FENSA logo.

My story about them is pretty odd. Here's a brief rundown-
1. Doors paid for in full on 4th Nov with 20 day delivery time
2. No response to emails or telephone calls asking for confirmation date, including numerous calls and texts to MD Phils Smith's mobile
3. 11th Dec - Get email informing of expected delivery date of 20th Dec
4. 15th Dec - get email confirming delivery date of 20th Dec
5. 20th Dec - no sign of doors, numerous calls to call centre, no answer from Phil Smith.
6. 20th Dec 7.00pm - call from George in customer services telling me that doors hadn't been made. He then told me that I was lying about having a confirmation date and after a few heated words he hung up.
7. I then started to research the Bi-Fold Shop on line and came across this site, so even bigger alarm bells started ringing.
8. Sent email to Phil Smith telling him that he had broken his own terms and conditions and that I'd be visiting him the following day to collect my full refund.
9. 21st Dec - recieve email from George saying that doors are to be made and delivered that day.
10. 21st Dec 7.30pm Phil Smith delivers doors personally. (Bearing in mind I'm 180 miles from Hereford)
11. 22nd Dec - doors fitted.

Reading the other comments I'm one of the lucky one's who's received their doors and quite why so much effort was put in to me receiving them in the space of a day I don't know. All I can suggest is persistance and mild threats, ironically - without wishing to rub salt in any wounds - the doors are very well made and very easy to fit, but to anyone who is considering using this firm ....look elsewhere.

Dear all - you could try this mobile number last unknow contact 07814423751

Same story here, just found out my Mums has paid in full and surprise surprise, no doors, no installation and no phone call. I am furious with these F***s. Please advise best course of action for me. I am only half an hour from there supposed address and I might take a ride over there to see what happens.

I am in the same situation as most people on this website.....I just wish I would have searched for the parent company before I paid the manufacturing fee. I ordered bifold doors about 3 months ago and still haven't received them. Tom - I would also be interested in the contact information for the manufacturer if you can post them here? Many thanks.

Hi Tom
I am in the same position as you were i notice that you contacted the manufacurer of the windows/doors and wondered if there was any way you could forward there details to me, my doors should have been fitted today, and like you I cannot contact anyone from BIFOLD DOOR SHOP.CO.UK

Dear Tom,

I am so appalled to hear that you too have been done by these total total cowboys. Getting you money back, will not be easy and we never got our money back. But we were fortunate enough get some help from Cowboy Trap to recitfy our situation. I am happy to give you some advice Tom. If you pop your email address on the comments page, I will email you my details and you can contact me when you like. I will remove your email address as quickly as possible.

Honestly I think if I can get everyone together who has been done by these completey F******g cowboys we could put together quite a strong case or least get a tv company on the case.

Hi There,

I have been stupid enough to purchase bifold doors from the bifold shop/FSBC trading.

I paid a surveyor fee, then paid the manufacturing cost (stupid I know) upfront and was given a delivery and fitting date of 20 working days.

After missing delivery date after delivery date we could no longer get hold of anyone in charge and they dodged phone calls and emails. We were very worried so we tracked down their manufacture in Peterborough who advised us that the doors were on order and would be delivered to the Bifold Shop. I received no communication from them until a one line email telling me the doors were going to be delivered.

When the doors were delivered and fitted the first problem was the size of the frame. They told me to build the space to 3m width and 2.1m height - my builders build a space of 3.1 width and 2.1 height which should have been ample. The frame was too big for the gap and they have ripped of the beading and hacked lumps out of my wall to fit the frame in.

My builders phoned me and informed me of the situation, then called and asked how I had ordered them. Everything I went through with, with their surveyor was the wroung way round. I now have bifold doors folding out in the middle of the patio and a traffic door walking in to a bush!!

I was furious and phoned them up, he said he would look in to it and get back to me. He has not got back to me, will not answer my calls or emails? Does any one have any advice on how I can get them to rectify this or get my money back??

Regards

Tom

I cannot believe that this is still happening. It simply is not good enough more needs to be done.

Ah if only I had searched earlier. I put an order in with The Bifoldshop (http://www.bifoldshop.co.uk), who are also a sub of FSBC Trading..... the delivery date was missed 4 times, which was clearly a pain, given I was missing 4.5m of rear doors...I did actually get my money back.... but that was incredibly painful.... Talking to the sales team, there are a lot of people in the same boat and deeply unhappy. It annoys me that the parent display various accredited symbols, not of which protect the consumer at all.... these guys are FENSA, FMB etc etc which all means nothing at all if they dont deliver....

Looks like your site has worked.

Your legal action against DG Shop Limited resulted in them liquidating their company so they didnt have to pay you.

Your installation had been sub let to a company calling its self FOUR SEASONS BESPOKE CONSERVATORIES LIMITED.

Guess what, that company (04456886)
changed its name to FSBC Limited 30/12/2009, legally.

However the web site domain name of doubleglazingshop.co.uk, is now promoting, Internet Windows, presumably because there are too many "nightmare tags" on double glazing shop searches.

Thats fine if a company wants to start afresh, with new ownership, directors etc, however the dgshop domain name continues to break the ASA rules as full company details are now required on every web site. so its still not clear the actual company you are likely to be dealing with.

Thats one reason why the new review site www.doubleglazingcompanies.com
may be of interest to people checking.

Hi and well done for setting up this website! The double glazing shop are liars, In 2008 they told us they were FENSA accredited and even had FENSA written all over their paperwork. We had the windows replaced in my flat and never sent us the FENSA certificate, so the year later when we sold the place we had to take out an indemnity insurance policy for the new owner, which left us more out of pocket. The guy we dealt with Lee conveniently never returned my calls. When i phoned FENSA to my shock horror they did not have the double glazing shop listed as a member.

Today I have received a spam email from a company called Internet Windows promoting windows at cost and when I went to unsubscribe I saw FSBC Trading written there. So bewarned these cowboys are now calling themselves 'INTERNET WINDOWS'.

The next time I buy double glazing I will check they are registered with FENSA and check the reviews online!

Sorry to hear about your experience, came across your tale on the double-glazing_forum

Some of us do pride ourselves with the quality of our work. Unfortunately, others have no shame and take and take...

I heard about this site from"Bygone Installations Essex Ltd comes to the rescue!" written by Alan Burgess in a site. There he said that your site was picked up by BBC news and was shown on their news program. So I am little curious about the site and have come here to see the site. I find it as good and informative.

Hi can I just comment on John Crouch's comments on the powers of the court. During my work in credit control over the last 16 years it has always been a shock to me that when a person or a company receives a directive from a judge at a county court to pay a sum of money to third party how it often gets ignored. However help is at hand if you pass the judges decision to the high court you can apply for a high court writ. This will then enable the bailiffs to take action. Many bailiffing firms will be happy to process this action for you through the high court. But again if the person or company owing the money has gone into liquidation or bankruptcy then they are likely to get away scot free.

It is worth noting that FENSA is nothing more than a self-certificating procedure to declare the products comply with the Doc L part of building regulations. That means they meet prescribed insulation standards, nothing else.

FENSA site inspection happens to about 1 in 100 jobs when possible. Again this is to assure the products comply with Doc L. It would be rare to find window products sold in the UK that don’t comply with Doc L.

FENSA members are requested to offer the consumer and additional insurance backed guarantee, meaning the consumer is pointed in the direction of a company that will for a fee take on the risk.

FENSA is not the only Doc L compliance root. CERTASS, the BSI, Network VEKA and your local council and so on are also permitted approval bodies.

As other have already said on this site, buying the cheapest is not the same as getting good value. As windows all meet the same standards and as a consequence come in at about the same price, the real thing to affect fitting costs is the price of the labour to install the windows. Logic dictates that the cheapest windows are those fitted by the guys getting paid the least. Cheap windows are really means good window fitted cheaply.

The best job always comes from your local installer, whom depends on you to recommend their work.

Hi there Caroline an Sean, So glad that your story did have a happy ending. Trouble is that all to often money is lost; the job takes years to put right at extreme cost. Some families never do get over it all. Stick to using local firms, always request to see preivous work that they have done and get at least 3 quotes for the job. Remember cheapest isn't always best. Sometimes you won't get what youv'e paid for and the cost of rectifying it will then make the cheapest job the dearest! Eddy and his partner installed our double glazed windows nearl 30 years ago and they are still going strong. So it really does pay to do your research properly. Shame that the courts don't seem to have the power to force these cowboys to pay up when they lose a court case. This would be the real deterrent. Trouble is that nowadays they can declare themselves insolvent; and straight away start up another company with a different trading name foisting the same shoddy practices onto the unsuspecting public once again. The only regret is that the BBC didn't bother to name the company or the individual resposible for your shody workmanship. They do name them when it's Rogus Traders or Watchdog. Funny that, sems like different rules. By the way if the individual has gone into insolvency; how come the a double gazing shop website is still up and inviting enquiries? Or is that a different one? Best regards from ohter locals, John & Lola.

I have just seen the program and looked for your website.
I am glad everything worked out for you and good luck for the future.

I am in my 60's and and have years of experience in having work done at various houses I have owned over the years and find it's not any easier now to avoid cowboys.
My main mistake has been to be too friendly with the builder.
The advice given on the programme about doing research and keeping everything on a business like manner is not easy but a must.
Luckily we have gradually built up a list of tradesman through recommendation.

It's a shame they didn't name and shame.

Hi i'm just been watching the "Cowboy Trap" on TV and feel for you. However please be aware that we have just brought a house with new windows - that had a 10 year guarantee and had got a FENSA certificate. I've just found out that the guarantee is invalid because the window company has gone into liquidation and FENSA didn't check the window fitters quality of work at the time of fitting. (Apparently they don't check every job.) The gentleman that lived in the house prior to us passed away 3 months after the windows were fittedand he paid approximately £5,000 for the work. It was only when we moved in 12 months later that we complied a snagging list. Which we are working through at our own cost. Buyer please be aware, do not pay any money until you are completeley satisfied with the job and ask a surveyor to check it if your in doubt. Kind regards Sally

It's good to see that you got the windows you wanted - fitted well and looking great.

Good luck to you both - and well done for deciding to use the web to fight your corner. It's a very powerful tool!

M

So glad you guys got your windows sorted out.

The reps from these window companies are very able to show their FENSA credentials and the samples of the windows and locks etc, but the companies come, go, and resurrect them selves over and over again.

My own story is NOT one of complaint. I got a good quote for my exact requirements, the windows were great, and fitted by real craftsmen.

Trouble is, 2 years on, I want more windows, but looking for the comapny with which I was so happy, theyve just disappeared....

so no new business for them, but where do I go for my 10 year warranty on the original windows.

I dont think there is any way to get a meaningful relationship with a window supplier. Even the most established companies "re-brand" and "re-invent" themselves with regularity.

Take care

Well done. I'm glad you went after these cowboys. It is good to see the underdog fight back!

good for you just watching your case and good on ya for setting up this site to warn people.
i believe that so many good builders are out there but the few cowboys like this company spoil the reputation of these i'm glad your situation is now sorted.heres hoping if only one person learns from your situation then that is a result.keep safe, steve

Follow up in the trade press - <a href="http://www.fenestration-news.com/news/newsItem.aspx?id=7764"> http://www.fenestration-news.com/news/newsItem.aspx?id=7764</a>

Sean and Caroline,

It was a pleasure to get your home straight again, and to be able to supply the windows that you thought you had ordered originally!

It makes me really cross that there seems little to stop companies like this, who seem to phenonix regularly.

I know everyone was shocked at the installation, the lack of safety glazing and fixed light windows where fire egress is needed, above all though was the finishing both inside your home and outside.

Inside the architraves left much to be desired, whilst externally the amount of making up of plastic (windows were too small) was horrid, just like the "silicone brick filler"!

What I liked about you both is that you're really proud of your home, and you wanted to remove those ugly casement windows it had when you bought the place.

Its refreshing to see people trying to reinstate the character of Victorian terraced properties by installing authentic sash windows. Hopefully the valuer will think so too!

Thank you for the testimonials, and the links, no doubt someone will suggest this was just some elaborate marketing ploy....but we know the turmoil you've had to endure over the past 18 months!

Thanks once again

Alan Burgess
www.masterframe.co.uk
www.bygonecollection.co.uk

Sean,

As you know, my organisation was appauled to learn about your experience, especially when you thought you had been shown our brochures!

I do hope the liquidator finds a way forward for you, to reclaim funds that may have been misappropriated by the directors.

Also we will help you get these refitted etc in due course, but good luck with the programme and the liquidators.

Alan Burgess
masterframe sash windows

Mr Marten
The BBC is looking for case studies for an item on tomorrow's breakfast news about people who have been ripped off by double glazers in response to a new Ombudsman scheme being set up.

Please contact us on 0161 838 7770 ASAP if you would like to tell them your story

Yngvai thank you for your comment. Could you provide me with some more details so I can contact the OFT?

Many thanks

Sean